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About The Show:

Why is peace so difficult to achieve in the modern world?

Each week, Doug brings on guests from around the world to talk about their work and practice.

Be inspired and informed by some of the most innovative peacemakers of our time.

Call in with your questions and comments between 7 and 8 pm Pacific every Thursday.


About The Host:

Doug Noll, Lawyer turned Peacemaker, is a full time peacemaker and mediator specializing in difficult, complex, and intractable conflicts.

Doug is the author of three books, Elusive Peace: How Modern Diplomatic Strategies Could Better Resolve World Conflicts (Prometheus Books 2011); Sex, Politics & Religion at the Office: The New Competitive Advantage (Auberry Press 2006), with John Boogaert, and Peacemaking: Practicing at the Intersection of Law and Human Conflict (Cascadia 2002).

Doug is a sought-after keynote speaker and advanced mediation trainer.



Show Contact Info:





The Doug Noll Show

Host: Doug Noll



Episode Details:


12/13/12 - Quieting the Victim, the Persecutor and the Rescuer Within

2:00PM - 3:00PM


Segment 1: We Always Have Choices.
Our guest on this edition of The Doug Noll show is David Emerald Womeldorff. David is a consultant, executive coach, speaker and author of The Power of TED, a fable on personal leadership that offers an affective antidote for Karpman’s Drama Triangle. TED (The Empowerment Dynamic) is a way of thinking and interacting with others. When we apply the principals of TED, we realize that we have choices. Sometimes they are limited, but we always have choices --- we can choose the outcomes we want in our lives and how we respond to life’s circumstances. David’s passion is helping people live their lives as consciously and collaboratively as possible. To find out more about David and his work, please visit   and

Segment 2: The Drama Triangle.
The Drama Triangle is interplay between victim, persecutor, and rescuer. We are a victim anytime we feel powerless. In order to be a victim, one must have a persecutor. A persecutor can be a human or a natural disaster or a medical condition, etc. A rescuer is someone/thing that “fixes” the victim or tries to protect the victim from the persecutor. The rescuer does not have to be a person; it can be an addiction or anything that temporarily numbs the pain. There is a trap to being in the rescuer role: over time the rescuer ends up being seen by the victim as the new persecutor. Eventually the victim realizes that they are being kept powerless by the rescuer.

The Drama Triangle is routed in a mindset that is anxiety-based and reactive in nature. This very mindset has helped us survive as a species. The reactivity is deeply wired and has been passed down as a survival mechanism. David says to fix the Drama Triangle we need to shift from a victim orientation to a creator orientation. When we utilize a creator orientation, the focus is on the outcomes we want to create and accomplish, instead of what we DON’T want to happen.

Segment 3: The Antidotes.
This is life-long work that takes patience and baby steps. We need to remember that we do have choices and we can choose a resourceful path. The “moment of choice” is the key point. TED helps us realize that:
Creator is the antidote to victim Challenger is the antidote to persecutor Coach is the antidote to rescuer

Segment 4: Non-Attachment, not Detachment.
One of the greatest challenges that you can have in TED is playing the role of challenger and coach at the same time. The secret is to cultivate a measure of non-attachment (different than detachment). The coach supports by asking questions, while the challenger supports by making declarative statements. It is requires a high level of self-awareness to play these roles and is a life-long practice. Baby steps!